tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post4031731289458768552..comments2024-03-25T10:22:36.277-04:00Comments on Women In Astronomy: Alcoholic AstronomerAmanpreet Kaurhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08734178178113146899noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-54487896007012125662015-12-19T10:00:34.974-05:002015-12-19T10:00:34.974-05:00Thank you for this post, it's nice to know I&#...Thank you for this post, it's nice to know I'm not alone. I don't drink because I just don't like the taste of alcohol and I don't like to feel drunk and I feel exactly like you when people question my choice and sometimes even laugh at me.Dustgrainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12044394075912263627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-87771212604839172882015-12-18T22:31:08.746-05:002015-12-18T22:31:08.746-05:00Let me add my support for people who prefer not to...Let me add my support for people who prefer not to drink alcohol. I agree that the alcohol culture is a real problem in astronomy. I'm often questioned, sometimes teased and occasionally pressured to drink alcohol. For the most part it doesn't bother me. But sometimes people do cross the line from being innocently insensitive to being aggressively inappropriate. <br /><br />I struggle with what to do when I see situations that have the potential to become inappropriate. Should I say, "Have a good time without me. Please remember to limit your drinking and behave professionally."? Should I do more? I realize that I hold a minority viewpoint. I don't think it's wrong for people to have an occasional alcoholic drink, whether as individuals or in a group. But it's quite common for people to cross over the line for what I consider reasonable or appropriate to the side of unprofessional, inappropriate or even flat out dangerous. <br /><br />My primary coping mechanism is to try to avoid situations where there is significant drinking. I go to dinners or receptions where some people drink, but I try not to participate in an event defined by the drinking, rather than by a meal or conversation. It's not uncommon that I feel a bit "left out" when people socialize and discuss science, over drinking, sometimes by choice, sometimes because people are trying to be nice by not inviting me. I tell myself it doesn't matter, since it's unlikely they'll do anything productive while drinking (even though part of me knows that sometimes there are valuable discussions there) and I probably wouldn't enjoy being with them anyway (which is grounded in my experience). <br /><br />One unfortunate side effect of my choice to avoid such situations is that others (who may feel that they need to go along despite their discomfort around people drinking in excess) may feel even more isolated or pressured. And I'm not there to step in to help someone if things get inappropriate or dangerous. On the upside, I often try to form a group of people who go out for deserts and conversation, safe from the dangers of alcohol. <br /><br />Recently, I asked a colleague whether she was comfortable with a situation (intending the question to be about gender issues). In the course of our discussion, I learned that she had been advised that people would expect her to drink during job interviews. I find that disturbing, but I don't know what to do about it. Even if no one on a faculty search committee would actually think less of a candidate who opts not to drink alcohol, the fact that some advisers are giving that advice testifies to how deep the alcohol problem is in the astronomy community. On the plus side, I can report that I declined every time I was offered alcohol while visiting graduate schools, making the rounds prior to my postdoc and during faculty interviews, and I still managed to land great positions. <br /><br />To my fellow astronomers who prefer to avoid alcohol, please realize that: 1) you're not alone, 2) you can be a successful astronomer even if you opt out of "opportunities" to network over alcohol, and 3) at least some senior colleagues think more of you when you and your professional judgement when you decline alcohol in a professional setting such as a job interview. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-74857120100671640202015-12-18T16:26:42.906-05:002015-12-18T16:26:42.906-05:00Regarding Anonymous (5:10 AM): I read this blog po...Regarding Anonymous (5:10 AM): I read this blog post as a lived experience by a woman astronomer, and as such it is relevant and I'm happy to see it on this blog. Also, why would a man be "distracted" from the issue of alcoholism? Most people I know don't have a problem relating to an experience described by a person, no matter what the person's gender is. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-19205448034686300322015-12-18T13:08:03.314-05:002015-12-18T13:08:03.314-05:00Unfortunately co-workers and colleagues can occasi...Unfortunately co-workers and colleagues can occasionally be pushy or insistent about offering alcohol; to anyone who has done that, even in jest or to be playful, take note! While I did not have to endure tough experiences like the author of this article, I did quit drinking while pregnant, the first few months of which was unannounced. This seemed to produce an annoying consternation and inquisitiveness in colleagues about why I would do such a thing as stop drinking. I understand it can be an important social aspect of after-hours work time, but it is not a necessity and can be an extremely sensitive issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-90840161130658152212015-12-17T14:23:39.346-05:002015-12-17T14:23:39.346-05:00'tis true.'tis true.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-90875453096581631172015-12-17T05:10:41.103-05:002015-12-17T05:10:41.103-05:00You asked the question "What does this have t...You asked the question "What does this have to do with being a woman in astronomy?" ... but you didn't seem to answer that at all. Why can't men be having the same issues you described? I understand that you wanted this anonymously posed on the Women in Astronomy page, but it doesn't seem to have any gender relevant issues, and probably distracts men from considering the important issue of alcoholism within their field of study by excluding them from the scope of your comments?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-62952346742662650552015-12-17T05:08:17.936-05:002015-12-17T05:08:17.936-05:00Most Psychologists would tell you that in order to...Most Psychologists would tell you that in order to deal with a particular situation that you have a problem with be it an addiction, phobia, or otherwise -- one of the worst things to do is to eliminate and hide from those situations. A more positive response is always to find ways to engage in those situations without engaging in the behaviors which are a personal problem to you. The best way to prove that "you don't have to drink to be cool" is to be at the "cool event" while not drinking, and lead the modeling of that behavior for others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-77471599429080761192015-12-17T01:24:02.038-05:002015-12-17T01:24:02.038-05:00Hear, hear!
I've got the straight edge and ha...Hear, hear!<br /><br />I've got the straight edge and have for about 5 years. No booze, no drugs, and I'm not an addict nor ever considered myself one. Most of my colleagues drink heavily and I'm absolutely uninterested in that, yet people are continually baffled by my enthusiastic refusal to imbibe with them, despite being highly educated, advanced-degree-holders. So, we don't hang out much. It's wild. Some people literally cannot imagine hanging out with other people off the clock without using substances, just like how some people literally cannot imagine why a woman wouldn't want to be told to smile or imagine eating a meal without meat. Ph. D. holders. WILD. <br /><br />I feel that people are more likely to understand one's motives to not drink if there's a history of alcohol abuse or a tragic accident, and as a result, "I'm an alcoholic" or "my brother was killed by a drunk driver" is seen as a valid excuse to not drink during social events. On the other hand, "I've got the straight edge" or "I'm not drinking because 'get-f**ked-up-culture is a corny, annoying, anathema to me" (the hard, honest truth), and even "I don't drink" will elicit interrogations and social discomfort, and especially so the drunker everyone already is. But you're absolutely right that no matter how it's brought up, it's almost always a conversation that you just don't want to have. People don't really want to out themselves as alcoholics to people who they are meeting for the first time or have a professional relationship with, it's damn stigmatizing! Once, I can clearly remember, I felt it was just easier to pretend I was an addict because "people will just accept it and move on", albeit a little shocked, but then I'm lying to people for no real reason other than to make socializing less awkward in my own mind, which ended up backfiring because I still got the barrage of questions. But why should I have to explain myself to every single person with a Ph. D. that still has a small-minded mentality about alcoholism and alcohol's negative effects on people? Why isn't it the other way around? We're smart people, right? With all we know about alcohol's deleterious effects on public health, why are we the ones that have to continually explain ourselves and justify our sobriety, and even worse, be accused of "pushing your beliefs on other people." I see countless alcohol advertisements every day going about my daily business. Who's pushing beliefs on who?<br /><br />When you boil it down, it's a core value to a lot of people that they should have the right to change their consciousness through substances, and it's one that fundamentally, no one can argue with. It's fruitless to try to convince people that their core values need to be adjusted. You make a great case that the physics/astronomy community needs to make space for people that don't drink, especially at conferences and large social events. However, that's not going to happen unless people who don't drink actually make some real noise about it by contacting organizing committees, and even better, if some people who do drink empathize and understand that more social events need to happen where alcohol is not a factor, or at the absolute minimum, the focus. Regarding our colleagues and students who have drinking or substance problems, sometimes an honest and extremely awkward conversation is is the only thing that registers with people. People are truly afraid of taking advantage of resources that are available, and of upsetting the delicate social balance that permeates our workplaces. A lot of us dealt with being social outcasts earlier in our lives, and bringing up issues with department culture, especially relating to substances is seen as a "square" thing to do. It's endlessly frustrating, but thanks to your post I'm going to give this some more thought in my institution and in my professional sphere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-38288412754991798122015-12-16T19:35:54.098-05:002015-12-16T19:35:54.098-05:00Thank you for your brave post. A cousin of mine di...Thank you for your brave post. A cousin of mine died young from alcohol-related illness, leaving behind a beautiful family. Alcoholism is a devastating disease for all involved and yet alcohol is ingrained in our culture - advertised as cool, or a treat when you deserve something special, but in reality a multi-billion dollar industry with a powerful political voice and slick advertising campaigns. Your point is well made that we should and must make the work place all inclusive, be sensitive to how excluding alcohol-related work socialising is and the wider problems that a drink-work culture creates. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-37572705707748942672015-12-16T16:55:48.232-05:002015-12-16T16:55:48.232-05:00I also am not comfortable drinking in social event...I also am not comfortable drinking in social events. And I think a good way to socialize that does not involve alcohol is games, either board or video games.Leonardo dos Santosnoreply@blogger.com