tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post517634864201517516..comments2024-03-18T17:15:48.646-04:00Comments on Women In Astronomy: It's Not About That Damn ShirtAmanpreet Kaurhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08734178178113146899noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-63841825717273620762020-04-28T19:52:15.274-04:002020-04-28T19:52:15.274-04:00Much ado about nothing. The guy didn't need to...Much ado about nothing. The guy didn't need to make a tearful apology because he didn't do anything that heinous. And no, wearing a shirt with scantily (barely) clad women is not oppressive or representative of anything. Any more than me wearing a shirt with a cat on it. "YOU'RE AN ANIMAL ABUSER, THIS IS REPRESENTATIVE OF ANIMAL ABUSE BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE HARM CATS". The logic is about as ridiculous as what I quoted. There isn't any indication that a he or many other men in this industry are woman abusers and his shirt is not a representation of it. Any more than you or someone else wearing a shirt with a cat is a representation of animal abuse in the community.<br /><br />To put it simply, you're jumping at shadows. He wore a tacky shirt, it was unprofessional, end of story. It doesn't cancel out his accomplishments in life and it certainly did not demand this huge firestorm. He's not Bill Cosby. Try being outraged about actual, real mysogynists/sexists/rapists like Cosby. Not waste your time going after some guy wearing a shirt. Have a little perspective. Look at the women in the congo, Uighur women. There's your activism. But you do this because it's slacktivism. It's easy. You can complain about what some western man did, like wearing a shirt from the comfort of your own home and feel like you're making a difference in the world; instead of traveling to and living in third world nations where things like slavery and whipping are common practices. You people aren't real feminists. You're fakers. You call yourselves feminists, but you don't care about the most pressing issues, the world offenses, what women all around the world have to deal with. No, instead, you focus your energy on a shirt.<br /><br />I'd hazard a guess most of you don't even know about what Uighur women go through. When you're done jumping at shadows and getting outraged by tweets, youtube comments, facebook posts, and shirts, google Uighur women go through every day of their lives. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-72316210688734394142017-04-06T16:53:22.814-04:002017-04-06T16:53:22.814-04:00It's a shirt!
Seriously! Inappropriate, pr...It's a shirt! <br /><br />Seriously! Inappropriate, probably. Sexist? Only if you're a far left feminist looking to be offended. It was a shirt created by a woman for a friend. IF you're so offended by something as innocuous as a shirt you maybe need to re-evaluate your need for control, and maybe stop imparting some heinous agenda to something as innocent as a shirt. He wore a shirt, it didn't hurt you one iota. I see many feminists bragging about bathing in male tears and wearing shirts that say so. Is it offensive, sure. Does it hurt me? Nope. It tells me to avoid the crazy person wearing it. Instead of focusing on something as ridiculous as a shirt maybe you should ignore it and focus on the teams accomplishments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-543128827491928832014-12-04T02:23:38.792-05:002014-12-04T02:23:38.792-05:00As a female in the IT field, I think I can add som...As a female in the IT field, I think I can add something myself...<br /><br />It's not a big deal when your male colleague feels entitled to explain you how Visual Studio works, even if you're a senior developer.<br /><br />It's not a big deal if your male colleagues is constantly triple-checking your work, "just to be sure", while they keep planting bugs in the code and no one says a word.<br /><br />It's not a big deal if your boss keeps praising your outfit during a stand-up meeting, even if you're clearly uncomfortable with such compliments and the only thing you want to do is to finish this meeting.<br /><br />It's not a big deal if you're the only one female developer in a team of 18 persons - the other two women are the beta-tester and the secretary.<br /><br />Yep, it's not a big deal, indeed. Because it's not a big deal, I quit this job and been hired by another company.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-68789382555919580472014-12-03T21:33:36.295-05:002014-12-03T21:33:36.295-05:00I agree with you.I agree with you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-63002210957147575312014-11-27T10:47:03.859-05:002014-11-27T10:47:03.859-05:00"Rape threats. Death threats. Organized, cons..."Rape threats. Death threats. Organized, constant online abuse."<br /><br />All of which has also been dismissed as no big deal. Yes, even the death threats.<br /><br /><br />"It takes an incredible amount of effort to sustain that kind of hate and malice."<br /><br />Look at what Rebecca Watson is still facing more than a year after Elevatorgate.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-10189362256406606692014-11-25T02:46:54.242-05:002014-11-25T02:46:54.242-05:00Dear Anonymous,
In general it is not a good idea ...Dear Anonymous,<br /><br />In general it is not a good idea for a boss, manager, advisor, or person in a position of power to proposition or date someone below them. Most companies and universities have sexual harassment policies which forbid this behavior. <br /><br /><b>The problem comes down to consent.</b><br /><br />If it is perceived by one party that the other party could fire them or negatively effect their career if they say "no" when asked out, then it is not clear if the junior person is saying "yes" because they want to go out with the senior person, or because they feel obligated to go out with them otherwise they will have negative professional consequences. <br /><br />This is not an issue with coworkers who are peers or where there is not a threat of professional repercussions if the advance turned down.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_harassment#Situationsberkeleyjesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00255252868558666987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-6475986558728277022014-11-24T23:18:23.090-05:002014-11-24T23:18:23.090-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.berkeleyjesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00255252868558666987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-71331087296588950492014-11-24T20:02:41.161-05:002014-11-24T20:02:41.161-05:00I agree with most of this article, but is it offen...I agree with most of this article, but is it offensive for someone to ask you out, provided they do it in a respectful way? I don't think it's sexist for someone to want to date another consenting adult.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-42540633780948205242014-11-24T19:14:45.880-05:002014-11-24T19:14:45.880-05:00It's a shame the toxic climate of the internet...It's a shame the toxic climate of the internet has made it necessary for the poster and many commenters to hide their identities, because this is an excellent written and important piece.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-44714013212679571852014-11-24T01:33:56.693-05:002014-11-24T01:33:56.693-05:00I truly appreciate this thoughtful blog post and t...I truly appreciate this thoughtful blog post and the contributions of most of the commenters. I also found the shirt sexist and offensive and wondered why Taylor's colleagues did not suggest he wear something else for the worldwide interview about the Rosetta mission. But I wonder why no one has mentioned the very first words he SAID in the interview... I can't quote exactly, but I remember something like, "This is the sexiest mission I've ever worked on ~ no one said she's easy, but she's really sexy." THAT bothered me almost as much as the design on the shirt!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-71383139475550799862014-11-23T23:31:37.263-05:002014-11-23T23:31:37.263-05:00Regarding asking about medical conditions: At best...Regarding asking about medical conditions: At best, highly ethically dubious, imo. At worst, highly illegal (see: ADA in the US).Dinahttp://lintilla4eva.tumblr.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-71025858841247186782014-11-23T22:29:09.950-05:002014-11-23T22:29:09.950-05:00To the Anonymous who asked, " Is it truly ina...To the Anonymous who asked, " Is it truly inappropriate for an employer to ask a prospective employee in an interview about their likelihood for a medical condition that may in the future cause missed work days?"<br /><br />In the US, it's illegal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-48685524437030140262014-11-23T22:24:06.153-05:002014-11-23T22:24:06.153-05:00Yes, it is. Discriminating on the basis of pregnan...Yes, it is. Discriminating on the basis of pregnancy is illegal gender discrimination (at least in the states). <br /><br />Aside from the legal problem, it is a serious issue women are the only ones ever asked that question. Men are just as much parents and will likely miss work for a new baby, pediatrician appointments, etc. And before the child arrives, OBGYN visits with their partner. If the pregnancy is complicated (which I assume is what you mean by 'medical condition') then they're likely to take off work to care for their partner. <br /><br />One more thing - employers don't get access to medical info. I have a family history of high blood pressure, but no job interviewer ever asks what my likelihood of *that* is. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-15983530260021195952014-11-23T18:48:34.479-05:002014-11-23T18:48:34.479-05:00Thank you. It helps to know that when I tell the t...Thank you. It helps to know that when I tell the truth, sensible people are outraged.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-53573656853812238352014-11-23T18:40:02.089-05:002014-11-23T18:40:02.089-05:00I have an honest, serious question. Is it truly in...I have an honest, serious question. Is it truly inappropriate for an employer to ask a prospective employee in an interview about their likelihood for a medical condition that may in the future cause missed work days? I asked this before but I'm sure it just got lost in the shuffle.<br /><br />I'm also asking anonymously because tempers are heated on both sides of the issue, and just in case my question before wasn't lost in the shuffle but intentionally censored, I wouldn't want to face repercussions for simply asking a question.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-30148425114164283282014-11-23T13:21:35.963-05:002014-11-23T13:21:35.963-05:00Where is the evidence that he was 'driven'...Where is the evidence that he was 'driven' to tears? Would it be acceptable if he cried because he felt shame and disgust at his actions? I've cried because I felt bad about choices I've made. Is that 'not ok'? <br /><br />It doesn't matter if he knew the shirt was sexist (which he should have, because that's incredibly obvious). It was, and I'm glad he apologized.<br /><br />The only people dragging this out are the GamerGaters who seized on this as an opportunity to bash on women in STEM. If you look at the shirtstorm hashtag, the only people posting to it are misogynists. If they stop, this stops. You're targeting your pleas at the wrong audience.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-68448054428539319862014-11-23T10:09:23.600-05:002014-11-23T10:09:23.600-05:00I am a women working in engineering and have encou...I am a women working in engineering and have encountered casual sexism all of my life. However, I will suggest that it was not (entirely) Dr. Taylor's fault that he wore something inappropriate. Yes, he probably should have worn something more professional, but in fact, his job is science. I blame the director and producer (and possibly others involved) whose jobs it *is* to think about things like that. I can believe that Dr. Taylor made an honest mistake. I have difficulty believing that people whose jobs are to make someone look good on film did not think about the impact that t-shirt might have. Why didn't one of them ask him to put something else on!?!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-66864474303926036552014-11-23T09:32:22.653-05:002014-11-23T09:32:22.653-05:00I co-moderate a forum and I recall this one guy wh...I co-moderate a forum and I recall this one guy who posted a description of knocking an elderly woman down some stairs. I don't know whether he actually did it or not, but he posted at length about his hatred for all women. So I trashed his thread and told him he needed to chill out. His response? He threatened to use personal information I posted on the forum to figure out who I am and where I live. Now, I know he [i]couldn't[/i] do that to me because I had not posted enough personally identifiable information, but the fact that this was his go to response to a woman moderating his posts - implied violent threat. <br /><br />I have been stalked and harassed online on several occasions. I have had people track down personal information to use against me. I currently have someone who [i]thinks[/i] she's figured out where I live (this is the only woman to ever try to stalk me) and is talking about a lawsuit because she doesn't like some things I had to say. <br /><br />I have never met a man who has been through this kind of thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-79826573644595818852014-11-23T09:24:32.973-05:002014-11-23T09:24:32.973-05:00I'm a woman and I used to work in technical su...I'm a woman and I used to work in technical support and billing support for a cable company. I actually hung up on one customer after he was being extremely rude to me (as in calling me a liar for saying I could do tech support). An hour later he gets through again and tells the other rep (also a woman) to apologize to me for being an ass. I also did not get in trouble. Most of the time I had to try to cope with it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-33427577644626175482014-11-23T04:59:13.241-05:002014-11-23T04:59:13.241-05:00I know of a similar experiment by a scientist on T...I know of a similar experiment by a scientist on Twitter and I'll check with her before linking. She and her husband both tweeted about this at the same time with the same message. He mostly got debate, and the worst (attempted) insult he received was being called gay. She got rape threats, death threats, you name it. J McKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04891488628156811391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-83527449262705048782014-11-23T04:17:46.850-05:002014-11-23T04:17:46.850-05:00To wear a pornographic shirt like that means that ...To wear a pornographic shirt like that means that I can't show my class of 7-year-olds the interview. Not just for the girls, but the boys too - sexism affects all genders.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-40115350873487946562014-11-23T04:01:40.991-05:002014-11-23T04:01:40.991-05:00The issue is not about how he looked in the shirt,...The issue is not about how he looked in the shirt, or how the shirt fitted, whether or not it was attractive and whether or not his perceived attractiveness in the shirt was appropriate. <br />The reaction to this is the same as if he had been wearing a plain shirt, but holding up a soft-porn magazine to the camera. The fact that the images were on an item of clothing is irrelevant.<br />Does the shirt objectify women? <br />Is objectification of women acceptable?<br />Had an influential person shown support for the objectification of women in another manner at such an important (and public) time would you expect the outcome to be any different?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-6987581968585526892014-11-22T21:42:47.168-05:002014-11-22T21:42:47.168-05:00It is an example of a larger problem in society. I...It is an example of a larger problem in society. In another article I read, the author asked why the company who made the shirt not the focus of criticism. Or the system in general that has a market for shirts like these.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-40765507242085388552014-11-22T19:31:55.914-05:002014-11-22T19:31:55.914-05:00Thank you very much for this very informative arti...Thank you very much for this very informative article. It really moved me. <br />I have a daughter at grad school in a STEM field and I highly appreciate your input. I've always tried to support my daughter and unfortunately this included being motivated (actually compelled) to find and pay for self-defense classes, practice self-defense w/her & introduce her to pistol shooting. I wish my only reasons for doing this was to promote self-confidence & the intrinsic enjoyment of these sports but this is not the case. <br />I also agree that the shirt was inappropriate (particularly at a press conference). Nevertheless, many of the reactions were totally disproportionate to Dr. Taylor's unprofessionalism. <br />Hopefully, this situation and your article (along with many of the comments) will be a learning experience for those who might commit some of these sexist misdeeds at work or school; and those who didn't know how to gracefully accept the fact that Dr. Taylor's err was an honest mistake, particularly once Dr.Taylor apologized in tears.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6374266320411149509.post-84692872730859952522014-11-22T18:20:50.354-05:002014-11-22T18:20:50.354-05:00Here's a typical STEM prof telling everyone th...Here's a typical STEM prof telling everyone that math is male and the reason why men do math is because they pee standing up.<br /><br />The prof is Prof Em. at San Diego State Uni, Thomas Impelluso. <br />http://mancheeze.wordpress.com/2014/03/19/prof-emeritus-thomas-impelluso-mechanical-engineering-from-san-diego-state-has-a-message-for-the-ladies-trying-to-get-into-stem/<br /><br />If people don't think there's a problem with patriarchy in STEM, they're willfully ignorant.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04817813947088663301noreply@blogger.com